Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense. VihtaVuori Oy Company, reloading booklet (1995) Numerous magazine articles on reloading special calibers and personal loads where noted. SASS# 85224. .38 Special +P (Alliant Reloaders Guide) Warning! They have a large selection about the hard cast loads from 90 to 170 gains. Groups with these loads ranged from 1.25 inches to just under two inches at 25 yards across a handful of pistols. I'm guessing they still go bang, and leave the gun to go downrange. We look at three classics: one each in .45 ACP, .38 Special, and 9mm. This is good, because the snub takes a lot of practice to have a consistent capability. 38 Special 125 gr XTP American Gunner Item #90324 | 25/Box The American Gunner line of ammunition is a collection of tried-and-true, versatile loads that are popular with shooters for their target shooting, hunting or self-defense needs. Unlike many other guns Ive owned and carried, this little snubby really cant be modified much beyond factory configuration. It would seem that a 125 grain GDHP is of the same weight and would have a similar profile to what you want to use. September 2015 S.W.A.T. Winchester only published load for WST in 38 special using lead bullets if you look at the data for the 158 data the start load goes from 3.3 Gr and a max load of 3.7 Gr. I use CCI Snake shot for two and Buffalo Bore short Barrel 130 gr. The 125 Hornady XTP, a jacketed hollow point bullet that can easily handle 1500 fps velocities. The .327 Fed Mag is IT! Love my 642 for concealed carry, but have an SP101 (also a snubby) in .38 special (only) for use on the range. So I'd think you should find a decent load for short line at about 700 Fps and for the long line at about 800. I may have to rethink my plan. Best and most realistic article about the .38 special ive found. (Patrick Sweeney photo) September 15, 2021 By Michelle Hamilton, Field Editor. JHP, 125 gr. Yes I do have a few of the older high quality classic revolvers not the current made Cast Iron garbage that is being vomited out today. Rookie, back in the day when I was reloading I went through a 3 round butt L. Horton special model 24, a 4 24 and a 4 624. Canister Sizes: View All Bullseye Recipes I'm looking for some recipes for 38 special for a 125 grain copper plated (like Berry's) flat point bullet using Unique, Bullseye, or W231. Very versatile cartridge. Does anyone have any data. I used to reload .38s and .357s with 158 grain LSWC bullets over 4.3 and 6.5 grains of Unique. I do this for my .357s but this article is about .38 Special loads. The Speers do occasionally and the Magnus a little more. Maybe its just me, but having that tiny bit of extra length and weight in the cylinder that I was never going to use just kinda bothered me. In fact, in the past I specifically sought out revolvers chambered in 38 SPL only, knowing I would never be putting a 357 Mag in it (I carried a 4 GP100 chambered in 38 SPL as a duty sidearm in the early 90s). (Note: These are near maximum loads (in some cases ARE MAXIMUM), you should use 10%. The trigger has smoothed out over time. These bullets shot to point of aim in modern S&W snubbies, but the older M10-5 was regulated with 158 grain bullets and 125's shoot low. Many reloading manuals also list an estimated pressure with a given load. All right are Reserved Reload Ammo, Reloading The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), hi=849 lo=728 ES=122 (powder up and down), hi=821 lo=684 ES=137 (powder up and down), hi=815 lo=637 ES=178 (powder in normal positions), hi=714 lo=549 ES=165 (powder up and down), hi=758 lo=693 ES=65 (powder up and down)(DO NOT USE LESS), Hi=886, Lo=861, ES=25 (This is a Carolina Cast bullet SWC-great cowboy load), hi=859 lo=743 ES=116 *(my personal medium load), hi=875 lo=685 ES=190.2(powder up and down), hi=710 lo=497 ES=213 (powder up and down), hi=791 lo=625 ES=166 (Powder up and down), hi=785 lo=670 ES=115 (powder up and down), hi=801, low=766 ES=35.32 in Contender 14 bbl. Bullseye is the best powder I have found for 38 special. Each of the classic loads is also economical. It's given me good results in the 2, 3 and 4 inch barreled. Unsurpassed for .45 ACP target loads. I'm still hunting for a DR load for my S&W M19-5. There seems to be a dearth of information using WST powder for the 38 Spl cartridge. 3.) 7.) Most starting .357 reloading powder levels will fall in this .38 +P+ type reload, and the powder being used can be selected (faster or slower) based on barrel length. The more serious concern for some loaders is that the small charges of fast-burning powder take up little room in the case, making it possible to double charge a cartridge and exceed safe pressure. I have done it with 38 special and 44 Mag, only to have a lead coated bore that looked like a rusty old drain pipe. The majority of my shooting with .38 has taken place with soft lead bullets. This is not loaded 9mm ammo. Currently using Titegroup, but started out with, and loaded many thousands of rounds, with Bullseye. These are light and easy to shoot. head I use 3.2gr. Ideal load in a 2 J Frame .38. You can always back off to the .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Mag if you choose to. Because we have no action to cycle, the novice reloader can afford to be off a bit if they have an entry-level scale or powder dispenser. Agree 100% since I reload and shoot it since years, lost count. The only way to shoot both 9mm and .38 special is to have two separate cylinders timed to the revolver. Left to right:148 gr. I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. (Or so I have heard.). . In a day you can make over 100,000 bullets. What overal length of the cartridge? Clear editor. At belly button range, very nasty load. Great Cast Lead Bullet for IDPA. Your email address will not be published. However recoil will be the limiting factor especially for the short line. Ok, will the bullet easily pass thru the cylinder throat, if so, you need the next larger size bullet dia. WITH THE SWAGED BULLETS REDDING SELLS A PROFILE CRIMP DIE. Even slower powders may provide more consistent speeds and will be tested in the future (No. The 9mm produces about 35,000 psi, When using a 158 gr. I love a nice, full-size .357 Magnum on the range because it is so easy to train new shooters on. Heck, 38s in a J frame arent fun- theres no way a 327 Mag isnt worse. While I wish I could carry a 5 .45 WITNESS with several 10 round mags, as a senior citizen, the S&W J frame is my user friendly alternate. Did you cross post the bullet weight? Good shootin! If you're looking for a real light load that's easy to shoot, I'd just use WW's data for the W231 with a 125 gr. I am way shy of 70 years old and I love me some .38 Special. I reached an interesting number the other day. I still think highly of the LCR but would shoot only 148 grain wadcutters in .38 Special or .32 H&R Magnums in the .327 Magnum model. Designed in 1898, the .38 Smith & Wesson Special cartridge went on . Not in that order. Bullseye Select A Caliber or Gauge Below To View Recipes. A bullet with a copper gas check or copper plating is best for INDOOR ranges to keep lead vapors out of the air. Thanks for your help. But I think I was still loading the cases from that first box when I quit loading 18 years later! Nitpicking is its own reward., I believe the correct spelling is loathe . I here from quite a few that 3.5 gr of bullseye is a good load for 158 gr lead Bullets for bullseye shooting. In my time with the cartridge, I have come to appreciate the mid to low end of the power spectrum and thus have made extensive use of Trail Boss powder and bullets such as Hornadys .358 158gr SWC. Bullseye is primarily associated with .38 and .45after all, it says right on the bottle: Great for .38 Special and .45 Auto target loads. But it is equally at home in high-velocity auto loads. Based on this Id load some at 3.3 and 3.5 and see what you get, but Id never exceed 3.8 ever. The big medicine was delivered by a 1911, but S&W K frames (favorites were Models 12 & 64) took care of everything else. In half a dozen different sixguns, it ranged from accurate to spectacular. A revolver shooting .38 SPL only requires the power of your finger to make it fire and can thus be loaded with ammo that is extremely mild or hotter than hot. Dec 18, 2011. Testing out some bullseye with 125 berry's bullets.. They are true classics, and I hope you get as much use out of them! Only need cast when driving up to 1200 fps or so. . Start conservative if you wish. of Bullseye, 148 gr lead DEWC and Federal 100 primers. On my J frame S&W without the CT #305 Laser Grips, I swapped out to a Hoque set. BrianEnos.com I've been using the same powders forever. ES 56 SD 24 PMC Eldorado Starfire +P 125 gr. Midway has it in stock. Dont get me wrong: I think the Smith and Wesson Model 642 Airweight revolver is an outstanding self-defense (concealed carry) revolver and you wont feel/care about how snappy/unpleasant the recoil may be in a real self-defense event. You may find it will need to be faster for good 50 yd. I just bought a Lyman mold 160 round nose with a crimp groove. 2.9 of Clays is soft enough and dead accurate at 50yds. Agree Problem with the J frame S&W is the grips. Upload or insert images from URL. In the 1950s, 60s. Super cheap and easy to make and would likely be a very effective defense ammo against wildlife that might be a threat to me as the two balls will spread an inch or two from each other at close range. Even at hot .44 mag velocities my Super Redhawk has shiny bore with zero leading. Its just two lubed balls on top of each other with the top ball roll crimped just past the hemisphere. Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue. When I say that theres rarely a wrong way to do it, I really mean it. I get 1000 fps with this load. Great gun. From my Hornady Third Edition manual 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Round Nose #3586 Win 231 3.0 Grains 650 FPS 4.4 Grains 850 FPS Now I will tell you from experience you do NOT want to load Lead Bullets Fast. As for the load ya the 158gr will probably take a little more, but your gun will tell you how much more.. Stylish But Serious: Kimber Super Carry Pro, Survival Savvy: Gearing Up for the Next Level, Force Multiplier: Knife and Gun Integration. I think you will find since the .38 special is headspaced on the rim your case length is very important to achieve your best accuracy. For me, the 32 H&R Mag is my 357 Mag, and the 32 S&W Long is my 38 SPL. Its like a pellet gun with a little noise and smoke if using black powder. This load tends to clock about 670 feet-per-second (fps) give or take 20, depending on the exact brand of wadcutter and the revolver its fired in. Biggest problem I had was the lubricating cases for sizing and then cleaning them afterwards, I guess grit was somehow scratching the cases after getting stuck in the lube. I don't completely understand the physics behind it. Alliant Pistol/Revolver Load Data: Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data. The cold header swages a bullet in one or two strokes. I load a hard cast 125gn for my 38 special all the time. It has been many years since I used a Lee Loader and a wooden mallet to reload 8mm Mauser. In a nutshell & I mean very short version. I'm not looking to blow up my old model 10. Larry Gibson "Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing." Nikola Tesla 01-30-2020, 01:43 PM #9 Mr_Flintstone Boolit Buddy Join Date Jan 2020 Location It is easy to load in progressive presses and has commercially available options from virtually all modern manufacturers. My grandkids think Im pulling their leg, when I tell them about the freedoms that NIMBYs took away. Similar to a 9mm 124 gr RN Cast Bullet. I like Bullseye in the 38 Special, and it was a consistent performer with the 125 grain bullets. Is it considered safe to down load a cartridge that far under starting? That's usually +P power level in .38 Special. Rated 5.00 out of 5 based on 9 customer ratings. 38 special was also my first cartridge to reload, and one of my greatest loves for reloading to this day. in 158 weight berry's bullet 3.8 grains of bullseye with a taper crimp. There is one good reason to use WST. Bullets are .357 for jacketed and .358 for lead in diameter. of Bullseye with Lee's 125gr RN mold in a 38 special with so-so accuracy. The use of .38 +P+ level (25,000 27,500 psi) type reloads, in .357 brass. Most double end wad cutters are 148 grain, and DR bullets must be 158 grain. It was introduced in 1902 by Smith & Wesson, and has since become a worldwide cartridge. I get okay accuracy with 4.4 of W-W 231 and 125s, depending on what bullet is used. Softer alloys of lead are just easier on the machinery. Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue. IIRC, the NRA Action Pistol power floor is a "factor" of 125, which requires a full 1,000 fps for 125-gr bullets. I dont bother polishing my .38 brass because I just dont let it fall in the mud or dirt. Most notably the lighter weight bullets. I believe this particular bullet is meant for the 9mm,but drops at 358. i use a Lee mold 150 round nose with 4 grains of bullseye crimped into the crimp groove of the bullet. In terms of thousands of rounds of range practice, though, that is a definite no-go in my book. A chameleon depending on your loads and the barrel length or action its fired from. Despite being well over one hundred years old, it still has perfect relevance for todays shooters, both novice and advanced. I'd rather shoot my .45 then. My guess would be almost identical, straight wall, not high pressure, definitely. My use of the term adequate means that Hodgdon has produced a workable result for the .38 Special, .38 Special +P, and .357 Magnum that may be used for 125 grain weight bullets having velocity limitations. Dont take this the wrong way; Im guessing the average age of .38 spl fans is about my age (70). They all shot horrible at 25 yards. Using higher pressure loads will wear brass out faster and it will become brittle with time. As I said I am not familiar with your frame and suspect it is one of the latest models out by Smith. I go with the cheap and easy shake and bake technique that requires only plastic Glad container with a lid, handful of black 6mm BBs and old toaster owen. The Pistol a Smith and Wesson model 27-2 The goal is two fold. Thinking of using it in NRA Action pistol or PPC. Classics go well together: circa 1909 S&W .38 Special and traditional 148-grain wadcutter load of 2.7 grains of Bullseye. Years back, for indoor matches I teamed the heavier S&W Model 28 with 3.4 grains of the same powder and bullet in . Bullseye is the classic pistol powder and the backbone of many pet loads. Others Have reported some success but few have more than one or two loads. Don't know of any bullets like that. My Hornady 11th edition shows this for 38 Special 158 gr lead RN, LSWCHP and LSWC. I use Bullseye powder but it's about the same burn rate. I can get away with using it as cast w/ alox. If there is only ONE load, it is MAX. 8.) I meant to say NRA. Posted March 19, 2015. The best part about this is that not only do you never really lose your fired cases, but you they are always in great condition. 110gr JHP! Go figure. She ran two cylinders of 100 grain wad cutters and gave it back to me. I started loading .38s with a Lyman nut cracker and a home made measure for Bullseye over 65 years ago. Your previous content has been restored. How does WST compare to Bullseye powder? Depending on the drill, 200-grain .45s let shooter push faster or use available time to shoot better, with significantly less recoil than hardball. This is my plink load for the kids. As a young man, I came into a couple of cases of hand-me-down factory mid-range wadcutters. Just dont shoot a rabbit with this load if you want to be able to eat any of it. 44 Rem Mag 36,000. Try. Red Dot work fine for most 38 Special loads. I have a long way to go before I'm ready to compete, but enjoy plinking and hand loading. 2 and No. True enough that it doesnt make power factor for Custom Defensive Pistol in IDPA or major in USPSA competition. Like Wobbly. Power Pistol won't work for me. Ive tried full metal jacket and the Hornady Action Pistol (HAP) match hollow point in this load, and both ranged from good to great in my nines. I started with a Lee Loader for my shiny new Python .357, because all the ammo I could find (in 1968) was lead semiwadcutters, loaded so hot they sloughed off the lead in the bore, so after a box you couldnt see any rifling, it looked like a smoothebore, and lord was it hard to clean!! Recoil is mild enough that for many years it was the golden choice for the next introductory step for young or new shooters after rimfire. If all you practice with is the easy comfortable stuff, its not really practice. There have been guns Ive bought for the caliber, but the .38 wasnt one of those. 38 special is a great cartridge. You need a .357 Magnum revolver if you want to try a 9MM cylinder. Main fame for the .38 is now the J frame size revolvers, as a CCW gun. The Speer #8 lists a max of 7.5 grs Unique with a 125 gr Jacketed SP This would be for plinking for my wife's ~3" Rossi, so something light and fun to shoot would be great.All three of those powders have published load data for that weight bullet in .38 Special.All three of those powders have published load data for that weight bullet in .38 . One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck.. Also compared a S&W 638 to the S&W 36. Interestingly, I had pistols that would shoot one well and the other impressively, but have not yet had one pistol do magic with both. My more serious RN is the 358311 that drops @150 gr. ( customer reviews) $ 10.69 - $ 246.00. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. A 4 inch barrel would be my choice as well. No sh!t. more weight than the similar size CA .44 Bulldog, were available, a lot more people would also like the .44 spl. I went to the grocery store to buy a loath of bread.. 11/2/2022. Never got around to trying the T grips. I.E. A circa 1918 Colt gobbled them up, as did several other 1911s that can be particular about bullet profile. I load rounds for my wife to shoot @ Win 231 4.0 to 4.3 gr. Lucky me. Bullseye Handgun Powders Smokeless pistol powder Billions of rounds have been loaded with Bullseye since it was introduced in 1913. In a 1909 vintage Smith & Wesson target .38, the 2.7-grain load cut a nearly one-inch cluster, showing that classics go well together. Beginners to shooting can use a full size revolver or their carry gun with light to mild loads to become confident and familiar with marksmanship and trigger control. Thx so it seems like for the long line I need to get some sagged bullets. Display as a link instead, Re: 38 special loads by GrumpyOldMan 11/10/2013, 4:23 pm IIRC, the NRA Action Pistol power floor is a "factor" of 125, which requires a full 1,000 fps for 125-gr bullets. For those folks shooting a lot of lead bullets, invest in a Lewis lead remover. A GI surplus 1911 that puts most loads into dinner-plate sized groups cut 3.8 inches with the classic recipewhich is probably the only time Ive gotten excited about an almost four-inch group! Handload: 158 grain round nose lead /3.8 grains Bullseye MV 775 fps ME 210 ft./lbs. Both have fed 100% in a variety of pistols and have shot very well. Thats a pretty clear explanation and comparison of the NEEDS of the strength of the chamber for each caliber. Your email address will not be published. i had the same issues you did when i was trying to load for my DR revolver 14-3. to light of power had a soft recoil but ungodly bad accuracy. Dennis, I dont reload and Im only 72, but shooting the .38Spl in my 6 S&W 586 is a sublime experience. Through the heyday of bullseye shooting over the various match courses of fire, there was probably a Mount Rushmore-sized mountain of powder loaded and combusted 2.7 grains at a time. My Reloading Manual for .38 Special has plenty of data for 125 gr JHP, and 125 gr JFP for Scot Powders/Vhitavuori, but nothing for Unique/W231/Bullseye. less to start.) But one classic target load is not far behind the .38 wadcutter in its own reputation with target shooters: a 200-grain semiwadcutter bottling up 4.6 grains of Bullseye. .38 Special (Alliant Data) Warning! Insufficient crimping ) ARCHIVED. 158 gr. Its worth mentioning that loaders do all kinds of obsessive rituals to squeeze the groups down. May 15, 2012. kc2za said: Hi All, I have been loading .38 spl with 2.7 gr. Yeah, my wifes last gun, with +P it actually HURTS! Easiest way is casting lines and a sprue mark on nose or base. http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp. 2.7 gr. BTW, I wish I had any one of those three revolvers today. I load my 38 target ammo to 3.5 grainsand my self defense 38 to 3.8 grains, when using 158 grain bullets (and Bullseye). Two years into my second century a Colt MK IV Series 80 LTWT Commander 45 ACP still delivers the big medicine, but I have become enthralled with a new wheel gun- a Charter Arms Professional 32 H&R Magnum. Please enable javascript before you are allowed to see this page. head I use 3.2gr. However, after consulting my several different manuals, 3.5 seems to be a border line max load. I have 100% confidence in my ability to shoot quickly, accurately, and comfortably with the 32, and I also have confidence that, if needed, my 32 H&R loads from Buffalo Bore and DoubleTap are quite capable of doing the job they are asked to do. I use 3 gr. 10. Also, too light loads don't allow the bullet to seal the gases causing problems. I am using this load in some .38 specials. Unique was a sooty powder so Ive switched to W231. The manufacturing process of swaged bullets requires relatively soft lead for two reasons. Just an FYI. IMHO .38 special is just fine for self defense, but just not enough to crack engine blocks. Components add up to far less than even generic grade factory ammo. Loath and Loathe are different words that mean different things. I have found that some powder coated bullets which are the same weight as lead, feel quite punchy out of the gun. 1995-2022. hebyta Has anyone loaded 38 special with these compoments? And if youre doing that [shooting 158 grain bullets at 1200 fps muzzle velocity] with a snub.let me know I wanna watch you shoot em. Jack it up a notch and go with .327 Federal Magnum. Do not use anything but light loads and lead bullets in these older revolvers. While I do have a GP100 in .357 magnum, I dont like shooting .38 special ammo out of it, because cleaning powder residue out of the longer chambers is a real bitch. That isnt unique to Bullseye, but is certainly more pronounced with the relatively small charges required. This post was originally published in 2018. +P? By Notes: primer: CCI 500; case: Speer; NOTE: All loads are maximum. The fast powders, W231, HP38, Bullseye would go over pressure very quickly with any slight changes, in seating depth or primer change. Load it like Trail Boss. Speer shows 3.9 to 4.5 grains for a double end lead wadcutter but I'm thinking that may be a little strong for a plated bullet. 1.455 in. At one time or another, I also owned and shot a M38 Bodyguard (nka the 638), a M37 Chiefs Special (now the 637), a M60 (which is a tad heavier but no more user-friendly), and a couple of others. https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2221-distinguished-revolver-loads-that-don-t-suck?highlight=distinguished+++%2Bloads, Load question on Penn Bullets for Distinguished load. .38 Special is a lot more comfortable in a service size revolver like my Model 10. When I finally nabbed my own canisters of Bullseye, the first load I spun up was 2.7 grains under Hornadys hollow-base wadcutters. The 38 Special, practically snubnose 38 Specials, seem to do their best work with bullets right around the 155-160 grain range. Jacketed bullets are not legal for Distinguished Revolver. Power Pistols works well in short auto cartridges and higher pressure cartridges but no so well with a 158 grain bullets in 38 Special. 750-850fps. Does anyone have experience with loading WST for 125 gr plates bullets or a place to start the research/testing? Paste as plain text instead, This too is useful information. 38 special , bullseye, and 125 grain lead rnfp Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting : The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and . It seems to burn completely in the .38 and is not as critical as the faster powders like Bullseye. My experience has always been with bullseye powder. This produces about 550-650fps from a 1 7/8 barrel and feels like shooting a very powerful .22LR. You will be, essentially, making 38 Short Colt. I have often thought about reloading .357 brass to .38 special velocities to get around that, but have just never decided to actually do it. If you have a lightweight .38 or older gun, you may want to start with 10% less than max amounts listed above, and work up to the full loads. Data will be standard "book" .38 Special data and I'll not attempt to "hotrod" the loads. JHP, (WC= WadCutter, SWC= Semi-WadCutter, HP= Hollow Point, RN= Round Nose), (JHP= Jacketed Hollow Point and if GC indicated, means Gas Check at bottom of lead bullet). HAVE FUN JP. Shot many thousands of my bullseye powder reloads with it. is limited to either the various Charter Arms models, or as a training/target load in a .44 magnum size handguns. 41 Rem Mag 35,000 @ Grumpy- I tried LOTS of grips on S&W revolvers. You are absolutely correct. Especially if you reload. .38 Special: What Ive Learned After 20,000 Rounds, Stacey Abrams Whopper: No one believes in eroding the Second Amendment, Scottsdale Home Owner Uses Shotgun to Stop Naked Home Invader Caught in His Childs Room [VIDEO], Liberty Ammunitions Innovative Personal Defense Rounds are Lighter, Go Faster, and Hit Harder. But not too tough. Javascript is required. I wanted a good carry gun that was light and reliable, so I decided that the .38 would fit and I just went with it. The 9mm Bullseye load is a good stand-in for either training or match ammo, with the velocity putting the power factor comfortably over the minimum for action sports without too much extra oomph. Last I looked still available at Brownells. Not sure how that translates to Bullseye powder. We've got some great loads for 158 coated and plated semi wadcutters, and we're trying something new. Different colors can be used to identify different loads and since bottom of each bullet is also powder coated, there is less lead dispersed in the air at the shooting range.